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送交者: 4848 于 July 05, 2003 14:07:59:
老刘，向你恭喜了。
这篇文章说，近亲结婚使乳房癌基因在人群中的比例下降的速度是随机结婚的六倍。也就是说，近亲结婚可以把一些有害的基因如本文中的导致乳房癌的基因选择掉。文章认为，在不同的人群中，乳房癌的得病率不同，近亲结婚可能是原因之一。
言下之意，就是老刘多年来说的，杂交可以导致人群中乳房癌的比例增高(和近亲结婚比，远亲结婚可以把乳房癌基因保存在人群中)。
看看谁以后再把你假说骂为“伪科学”，告他“诬蔑”“造谣”！
1: Int J Mol Med. 2002 Dec;10(6):713-9. Related Articles, Links
Breast cancer, consanguinity, and lethal tumor genes: simulation of BRCA1/2
prevalence over 40 generations.
Denic S, Al-Gazali L.
Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences, UAE University, Al Ain, United Arab Emirates. s.denic@uaeu.ac.ae
Marriage between biological relatives is a social custom with a long history in many parts of the world. Today, hundreds of millions of individuals live in consanguineous families. The offspring of consanguineous parents are more likely to have the same two alleles (homozygosity) by descent. In consanguineous family with BRCA1/2 gene mutations, an offspring is more likely to be BRCA1/2 homozygous. The consequences of BRCA1/2 mutation homozygosity in humans are unknown. In knockout mice, BRCA1 or BRCA2 homozygotes die as embryos. Because tumor suppressor genes are conserved and less species-specific than other genes, human BRCA1/2 homozygotes are likely to be biologically non-viable and are unknown to exist. Among the conceptuses of consanguineous couples, there are excess deaths (abortions, stillbirths, perinatal and early-childhood deaths) as well as a decreased risk of breast cancer, especially in younger females. It has been suggested that, in part, the excess deaths are due to BRCA1/2 and other still undiscovered tumor gene homozygotes. To examine the consequences of the long-term practice of consanguineous marriage on the prevalence of lethal cancer genes, we simulated, by computer, the mating of non-consanguineous and consanguineous populations over 40 generations. The program was developed in Basic for a Macintosh computer. The input comprised the rates of consanguineous marriage types and the output parameter was the rate of heterozygotes (carriers) in each generation. The combined prevalence of BRCA1/2 mutation of 1% was used as a starting reference point. Absence of spontaneous mutations and gene flow were assumed. In a randomly mating population, the BRCA1/2 carrier rate decreases on average 0.0035% every 25 years. In a highly consanguineous population, the carrier rate decreases on average 0.022% every 25 years, or six times faster than in a non-consanguineous population. There is a worldwide trend of decreasing breast cancer incidence with an increasing consanguinity rate. In conclusion, the BRCA1/2 and possibly other undiscovered tumor gene carrier rates are significantly lower in consanguineous than in non-consanguineous populations. Gene frequency in a population depends on the rate of inbreeding and length of consanguineous practices. A drift phenomenon may exert a major effect on the carrier rate. Consanguinity may explain part of the worldwide variation of breast cancer incidence.
PMID: 12429997 [PubMed -
indexed for MEDLINE]
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送交者: 4848 于 July 05, 2003 14:17:21:
回答: 转一篇严重挺老刘的文章：近亲结婚可能是某些人群中乳房癌低的原因 由 4848 于 July 05, 2003 14:07:59:
通过对近亲结婚和非近亲结婚的调查发现，在近亲结婚的后代的乳房癌的比例要小于非近亲结婚的后代，宫颈癌的发病率，几乎没有变化。
老刘自己可以下载看全文，如不行，我可以帮忙。
Br J Cancer. 2001 Nov 30;85(11):1675-9. Related Articles, Links
Consanguinity decreases risk of breast cancer--cervical cancer unaffected.
Denic S, Bener A.
Department of Internal Medicine, Department of Community Medicine, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences, UAE University, PO Box 17666, AI Ain, United Arab Emirates.
Marriages between third-degree and more distant relatives are common in many parts of the world. Offspring of consanguineous parents have increased morbidity and mortality related to recessive gene disorders. In a population with a high frequency of consanguinity, we examined the frequency of breast cancer (related in part to tumour genes) and cervical cancers (related to virus infection) among offspring of consanguineous and non-consanguineous parents. Study was done prospectively in the United Arab Emirates. Selected were married female citizens, ages 40-65, who attended 12 primary health care clinics for whatever reason. In a face-to-face interview, subjects were asked: (a) about consanguineous marriages in family; (b) if they have or have had breast or cervical cancer; (c) about family history of cancer, cancer screening and other parameters. Tumour diagnosis was confirmed by review of medical records. Of 1750 women invited into study, 1445 (79%) could be used in analysis. Among 579 (40%) women of consanguineous and 866 (60%) of non-consanguineous parents there were 24 and 54 with breast cancer, respectively (RR = 0.66, CI 0.42 - 1.06). In the 40 to 50 age group, breast cancer reported 13 of 446 women of consanguineous and 37 of 633 of non-consanguineous parents (RR = 0.50, Cl 0.27 - 0.93). Cervical cancer had 15 women in consanguineous and 32 in non-consanguineous group (RR = 0.70, Cl 0.38 - 1.28). Number of families with history of breast cancer in consanguineous and non-consanguineous group was 21 and 23, respectively (P = 0.29). The cancer screening rates and other variable values had fairly balanced distribution between the 2 groups. Having consanguineous parents decreases the risk of breast cancer especially in younger women, risk of cervical cancer being unaffected. (c) 2001 Cancer Research Campaign
PMID: 11742487 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: JE 于 July 05, 2003 16:20:28:
回答: 天啦，这一篇完全支持老刘的假说，老刘一直梦想的研究文章 由 4848 于 July 05, 2003 14:17:21:
反动学术权威离乡客之流方寸大乱，欲挥白旗--科学真理教狗头军师酸猪居然紧张的话都说不利索了。老刘你千万不要心慈手软，对这些害人虫要按照毛主席的教导：不可沽名学霸王。痛加揭露，无情鞭挞，快意恩仇，岂不快哉。
老刘你可不要乱了方寸，你的理论已经发表在云南大学学报上了，该学说的发明优先权无疑是你的。现在你要作得，就是打夜班赶紧写一篇英文SHORT
COMMUNICATION发
表在MEDICAL HYPOTHESIS上。500WORDS以内，贴上来，英文让小四帮你润色一下，投稿的事交给酸猪了(给他最后一个向真理投降的机会)。
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: 离乡客 于 July 05, 2003 14:33:03:
回答: 还不赶紧给查查，有没有引用老刘。 由 微结构 于 July 05, 2003 14:31:07:
其实不要说民间科学家，就是职业人士，credit不够，同行都不引。科学界就是这样万恶！
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: PHPig 于 July 05, 2003 14:48:39:
回答: 要不怎么说民间科学家吃亏呢，老刘没有英文文章发表，人家看不到怎么引？ 由 离乡客 于 July 05, 2003 14:33:03:
既然48同学这么热情地提出可以帮助老刘，老刘不妨将原稿
寄给48同学代为翻译，拍案同学可以做相关文字校对工作，
争取早日予以发表。
帮助民间科学家冲击科学共同体，挑战现有体系，善莫大焉。
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: 离乡客 于 July 05, 2003 14:52:12:
回答: 这个Medical hypotheses杂志大可一试 由 PHPig 于 July 05, 2003 14:48:39:
48同学和拍案同学身为民间科学院左右两大护法长老，有不可推卸的责任。
BTW，这个Medical hypotheses杂志的影响银子是多少？太低的咱们不能鼓励投，纯粹是让老刘的心血结晶明珠暗投！
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: PHPig 于 July 05, 2003 14:54:32:
回答: 我觉得也是，不管对错，作为一家独特的观点，发表出来不是坏事 由 离乡客 于 July 05, 2003 14:52:12:
当然48同学和拍案同学或许会从实验角度帮老刘完善其理论，
那么就可以完成从hypotheses到真理的飞跃了，S/N也是可能
的。
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送交者: PHPig 于 July 05, 2003 14:46:15:
回答: 老刘，老刘，where are you? 今天是你好日子，应请我喝酒。 由 4848 于 July 05, 2003 14:22:50:
这两篇文章的pdf还是没有down下来是不是？:)
提请48同学注意几个细节：
1) 这两篇文章的第一作者是同一个人；
2）2002年那篇文章乃是作者用自行编写的软件（科学素养！！！）
进行的in silica的模拟；
3）2001年进行的流行病学调查采用问卷，其中有40%的近亲婚
配后代和60%的非近亲婚配后代，这个样本能否代表通常人口
组成？流行病学调查俺是外行，专家们来判断吧；
4）假设这个流行病学调查是正确的，如何解释乳腺癌发病率
有差异而宫颈癌发病率无差异？
5) 48同学没有为老刘作系统检索，阿拉伯联合酋长国大学的
Denic S先生从1988年开始至今发表医学论文16篇，而从2001
年开始跟老刘心灵感应（老刘有没有给他寄去自己的论文？），
密集发表近亲婚配与癌症关系的文章，除了乳腺癌和宫颈癌之
外他还作了白血病调查，结论是白血病发病率与是否近亲婚配
无关——当然其流行病学取样方法还是值得商榷。值得一提的
是Denic S先生最新的文章发表于今年三月，题目叫做：
Consanguinity as risk factor for cervical carcinoma.
发表在Medical hypotheses上，假说集朱海军和老刘的理论之
大成，让我疑心他也偷偷上中文网进行剽窃。简要地说他认为
近亲婚配的双方会比较厌恶性生活而导致婚外性行为比例较高
从而导致感染HPV的可能性增加从而导致宫颈癌高发。
本坛的科学共同体服了老刘没有？^++++^
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: 4848 于 July 05, 2003 14:53:01:
回答: 48同学看来还是不肯帮老刘 由 PHPig 于 July 05, 2003 14:46:15:
关于4)
可能是乳腺癌和宫颈癌的机理不同。
乳腺癌主要由BRCA基因引起，有遗传研究意义，而宫颈癌，我不太了解，外因的因素可能也比较大。
所以有差异。
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送交者: 离乡客 于 July 05, 2003 15:04:53:
回答: 借口啊借口！ 由 PHPig 于 July 05, 2003 14:58:27:
这样才有和专业科学界对抗的可能。孤军奋战是不成的。
48同学明显不够敬业，看看人家拍案同学舌战群熊，才是为了民间科学家尽心尽责。
所有跟贴·加跟贴·虹桥科教论坛 http://www.rainbowplan.org/cgi-bin/edu/mainpage.pl
送交者: 4848 于 July 05, 2003 15:12:41:
回答: 所以说成立民间科学院迫在眉睫，而且应该聘期专业人士担任顾问 由 离乡客 于 July 05, 2003 15:04:53:
这样的专业文章可能发表了。
中国的近亲结婚现像，在有些地方也是很普遍的。在中国，搞遗传病的调查，还是比较有优势的。
老刘可能精力不够，奇怪的是那些专业的遗传病专家，不知做过这样的调查没有。比如中国的结婚政策，三代以内不许结婚，有没有数据支持？
美国有人搞过调查，好象是近亲结婚的后代发遗传病的机会并不是想象的那么高。
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送交者: Apex 于 July 05, 2003 16:28:09:
回答: 朱海军的关于面对面理论的意义可能更大，可惜竟成了网络的笑料 由 4848 于 July 05, 2003 16:01:15:
隔壁方舟女打算用信息论一统物理学天下；这里老刘的杂交
致癌说一致得到网络生物学家们的夸奖；你老现在又准备替
朱海军翻案。。。